Going Racing

[SteveA]

If you need bigger balls, you have a problem. On any race circuit, you don't need to go fast around corners the first few times you approach them. Systematically working up to them is a much better idea. Then it becomes routine. What I don't like is riding at extremely high speeds on big race circuits with my motor revving high for long periods. Especially when it is a long stroke Commando engine with a bolt-up crank.

The balls are needed for going down that long hill flat out! Until you have done it you don't know how fast you can go and still stop at the bottom. The approach to the corners in that 'straight' is to ignore them, until the braking area for the chicane! The fast riders here are brave! It isn't unknown for someone to decide to leave the track for the paddock, riding right across from left to right, or come back onto the track!

Belgium has a wonderful thing call a one day licence. Some of the guys in your race will not have the 'experience' that most do!

You need your eyes wide open.

 

[Moto55UK]

There you go Mike, the first race!. You going to Cadwell?

Thanks Ralph, Sorry wont be at Cadwell, this season has been a bit of a disaster, Ive only done two rounds of TONFANAU and the semi abortive BHRC at Darley MOOR and the CRMC Donnington Festival parading a Manx which was good but not racing, Im hoping to be at the Stars at Darley in October but that could change. But on the Bright side your videos of Gedinne are tempting me to get sorted for next year, expect a lot more views over the winter. Cheers Mike

 

[acotrel]

The balls are needed for going down that long hill flat out! Until you have done it you don't know how fast you can go and still stop at the bottom. The approach to the corners in that 'straight' is to ignore them, until the braking area for the chicane! The fast riders here are brave! It isn't unknown for someone to decide to leave the track for the paddock, riding right across from left to right, or come back onto the track!

Belgium has a wonderful thing call a one day licence. Some of the guys in your race will not have the 'experience' that most do!

You need your eyes wide open.

'Until you have done it you don't know how fast you can go and still stop at the bottom. ' If you did it 5 times getting slightly faster each time, surely you would be able to do it without a worry ? I never worry about the other guys, there are always idiots out and about. You soon know who they are, just by watching their wobbles and early braking. The only worry is when you zip past one of them too fast and the fall off in fright. So I avoid doing that. I never ride on reflexes but always try to stay ahead of the game. When you are racing, there is usually no need to hurry beyond what is comfortable. If the bike is not fast enough, you lose.

 

[storm42]

'Until you have done it you don't know how fast you can go and still stop at the bottom. ' If you did it 5 times getting slightly faster each time, surely you would be able to do it without a worry ?

As with most things, not that simple springs to mind. To put it in context:

My first ever race was April 2019, 4 months ago. My first race on closed public roads was July 2019 1 month ago.

Racing on short circuits doesn't really prepare you for closed public roads. and even if it did, 4 months experience isn't enough. If I was to go through the ACU to get a licence to race on public roads, I would have had to wait at least 2 years and meet certain conditions through out those 2 years. I am not saying the ACU is wrong to demand that you show a certain level of experience before they will licence you, but the roads are where i wanted to be and I am impatient, and too old too wait, time is running out for all of us. Belgium is a dangerous but very welcome shortcut to the roads.

My lack of experience and not wanting to die in close personal contact with a telegraph pole, does mean that certain things take some getting used to.

The part of the course that Steve is referring to is very strange when you get to it, there is a lot going on, and remember because of the weekends format, I only got to go through it about 20 times in all, there were other parts of the track demanding just as much thought, so all in all, non of the track will be mastered in one, two or even a lifetime of visits.

First you are coming down a country lane at the best part of 130mph and all of a sudden it opens up, there are caravans and motorhomes in the field on the left and people stood at the side of the road on the right, they are in the track entrance but you still see them. As well as the visual, you are still approaching a left hand curve at 130mph and it needs dealing with, there is no need to shut off to get round the curve and if the chicane wasn't there, I think it would be flat. But there is the problem, the chicane is there, and whilst your brain is telling you that you need to deal with the curve, the track is demanding that you deal with the chicane.

Steve is right, ignore the curve and deal with the chicane.

That is where the big balls come in, ignoring the curve, and with my lack of experience they do need to be just a bit bigger than they are.

They will grow.

 

[storm42]

Thanks Ralph, Sorry wont be at Cadwell, this season has been a bit of a disaster, Ive only done two rounds of TONFANAU and the semi abortive BHRC at Darley MOOR and the CRMC Donnington Festival parading a Manx which was good but not racing, Im hoping to be at the Stars at Darley in October but that could change. But on the Bright side your videos of Gedinne are tempting me to get sorted for next year, expect a lot more views over the winter. Cheers Mike

No problem, might try to get to Darley in October.

 

[acotrel]

As with most things, not that simple springs to mind. To put it in context:

My first ever race was April 2019, 4 months ago. My first race on closed public roads was July 2019 1 month ago.

Racing on short circuits doesn't really prepare you for closed public roads. and even if it did, 4 months experience isn't enough. If I was to go through the ACU to get a licence to race on public roads, I would have had to wait at least 2 years and meet certain conditions through out those 2 years. I am not saying the ACU is wrong to demand that you show a certain level of experience before they will licence you, but the roads are where i wanted to be and I am impatient, and too old too wait, time is running out for all of us. Belgium is a dangerous but very welcome shortcut to the roads.

My lack of experience and not wanting to die in close personal contact with a telegraph pole, does mean that certain things take some getting used to.

The part of the course that Steve is referring to is very strange when you get to it, there is a lot going on, and remember because of the weekends format, I only got to go through it about 20 times in all, there were other parts of the track demanding just as much thought, so all in all, non of the track will be mastered in one, two or even a lifetime of visits.

First you are coming down a country lane at the best part of 130mph and all of a sudden it opens up, there are caravans and motorhomes in the field on the left and people stood at the side of the road on the right, they are in the track entrance but you still see them. As well as the visual, you are still approaching a left hand curve at 130mph and it needs dealing with, there is no need to shut off to get round the curve and if the chicane wasn't there, I think it would be flat. But there is the problem, the chicane is there, and whilst your brain is telling you that you need to deal with the curve, the track is demanding that you deal with the chicane.

Steve is right, ignore the curve and deal with the chicane.

That is where the big balls come in, ignoring the curve, and with my lack of experience they do need to be just a bit bigger than they are.

They will grow.

Perhaps you should be more selective about where you race. If the risks are not minimised to a tolerable level, the racing is unsafe. You are dead a long time. I can imagine racing on the IOM, that is why I would never go there.
If you are racing, you need to keep an eye on your controlling body and in particular where they are getting their insurance. In Australia, you cannot race without insurance, however the insurer is a shelf company in the IOM - NOT Lloyd's of London. Many of the guys involved in running race meetings are dicks who have never ridden anything fast. There was a fatality at Winton where a car guy had a heart attack and the family sued. The payout was about $30 Million. Around our area, there are black MX meetings which run with the usual officials, but without insurance. In the worst case scenario, they would all be running for cover.

 

[SteveA]

The Belgian meetings have insurance and are supported by the Belgian federation.

The organisers have experience. But not all of the local helpers do more than one race meeting a year, though normally at Gedinne there are a significant number of UK enthusiasts who help set up and help out elswhere who do get involved in several other meetings a year.

The Belgian one event licence includes insurance, however next year I plan to enter with start permission from the French federation who issue my licence, it will cost me about 60€ more, but my insurance cover will be better and include repatriation to France.

Gedinne is probably the road circuit on the calendar most like a permament circuit, just longer. It is a good first taste of public roads racing, but it has plenty of stuff ready to bite if you try to ride it like a permament circuit, but maybe it helps that I rode Cadwell Park when it included an iron bridge, stone walls and a barn in it's run off areas!

Be aware, try to be smart, but being paranoid rather spoils the day!

 

[Steves]

To those of you who race the old Norton C, specifically the Maney version, do you find that after about 5 mins idling it gets hot and bothered to the point of quitting. I have a RTD ignition, the pickup is very close to the exhaust pipe. I had the ECU checked over with new connectors by RTL, I have tried several batteries, I have repositioned the coil in a cooler place (with heat shield) and have put heat shield round the wire from the pickup. I also put some exhaust wrap on parts of the pipe close to the engine. The tacho reads zero when this happens which indicates to me that the ignition is breaking down. I suspect heat at the pickup end doing something weird to resistance in the wires or trigger unit. On track with a breeze seems to run good.
Thoughts are to leave as is and avoid prolonged idle. Find a solution for trigger/exhaust pipe or maybe run idle circuit super rich. Having said all this it probably is a carb issue!!!
Snetterton next weekend.... no pressure

 

[Fast Eddie]

I know mines not a racer Ralph, but take the lights off and it could be!

Mine doesn’t display those symptoms. My big Nourish and Triumph engines used to, and on those I discovered that better oil pumps and oil coolers worked, indicating a core overheating when stationary.

The Commando seems remarkably resilient to heat by comparison IMHO.

Pilot jetting may be weak. But your tacho issue definitely points to ign I’d say.

 

[storm42]

Mine would run until the heat melted both the engine and me.

How is your rev counter trigered?

 

[Fast Eddie]

It’s wired to the input side of the coil IIRC.

 

[storm42]

Ha, this is confusing.

It isn't my bike that has the problem Nigel.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Ha, this is confusing.

It isn't my bike that has the problem Nigel.

Oh yes, quite right!

Not too confusing really I suppose, so long as one reads the names...!

Sorry Steve. Carry on...

 

[Steves]

I think the tacho takes its input from the trigger. I think the wires get hot, resistance increases and the ignition breaks down. It runs superbly on first start up. The bike has been on the dyno so fuel is setup correctly.
My current theory anyway. Where are your trigger/ pickups located?

 

[Steves]

Having said slightly tongue in cheek it’s a carb problem. Plan is to run it with a fan see if heat is problem cause, then run with a rich idle mixture and see if I can clear it that way.

 

[storm42]

Ah, I asked about the tach input because I once had an engine drop onto one cylinder and the tach dropped to zero at the same time. It turned out to be a heavily carboned plug going short, the pickup for the tach was on that side and was just a wire from the tach taped to the outside of the plug lead, like the Scitsu. Don't understand why, but when the plug went short, the tach stopped working.

My pickup is on the crank side of the engine.

 

[acotrel]

You should not be jetted rich enough to have a plug go short through carbon. My ignition operates through a double ended Honda coil. The only time it has failed was when I let the bike stand for a long time without running it, and it refused to start until I changed the plugs.

 

[Steves]

You should not be jetted rich enough to have a plug go short through carbon. My ignition operates through a double ended Honda coil. The only time it has failed was when I let the bike stand for a long time without running it, and it refused to start until I changed the plugs.

Yep I have been there also

 

[storm42]

You should not be jetted rich enough to have a plug go short through carbon. My ignition operates through a double ended Honda coil. The only time it has failed was when I let the bike stand for a long time without running it, and it refused to start until I changed the plugs.

It was a long time ago and was down to broken rings, so the carbon was oil related.

 

[acotrel]

It was a long time ago and was down to broken rings, so the carbon was oil related.

When the carbon on the plug is oil related, it usually looks shiny rather than like powder.